The Vitriol against M/M Material

[Starcomet]

I respect all people's interests and desires and make a point not to kink shame anyone for what they like (unless it is clearly illegal or dangerous). I have however noticed over the years that the amount of M/F and F/M artwork, stories, video game content, etc. has been slightly decreasing and F/F related material is becoming more and more the majority. This of course depends on the sites or communities you are in, but I am in several both within the bondage community and other fetish communities since my interests are...varied. While I personally do not care for F/F related bondage/fetish material, I respect those who do and allow it in my own groups if appropriate for the setting.

But it seems this respect is not really given when it comes to M/M content. In videos games, artwork, and stories that involve bondage, I have noticed many comments on such materials tend to be from individuals criticizing it for simply existing and making rude comments like, "This would be better if the sub was a female." Or "Ew a guy, females only please." I just do not see the point of these comments on such content. I noticed this in other fetish and kink communities as well which attack any M/M content and even a few M/F content gets criticized. There is a BIG difference between not liking something personally that others enjoy and attacking content that you do not enjoy personally. There is the assumption that any male involved in a kink or fetish has to be the dom/active participant and it is taboo if they are the sub/passive participants especially if it is M/M related. Female doms and male submissive usually gets a small pass, but I have noticed a few even view this with contempt at times.

I also hate how anything that is M/M related is instantly assumed to be gay and/or there will be sexual stuff involved. Just like not all F/F content involves individuals that identify as lesbians or bisexual (I have met my fair share of straight females who just enjoy tying up and being tied by other females), not all M/M content involves individuals who identify as gay or even bi (though most content do). I am asexual personally and have met other asexual males and even a few straight males who enjoy tying up or being tied by other males without anything sexual happening. Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me? I know that the majority of people are heterosexual and thanks to centuries of culture, females being tied up or submissive is just going to be the norm and that is fine with me, but males being submissive and M/M content should not be attacked.

[Chris12]

I certainly noticed it around the internet. Fans of Damsels in distress can just about anything they want. But fans of Guys in Distress must make due with what little they manage to get.

Yet despite this a lot of times there's a more high quality bondage pic with a male, or even a male or a female in it then there's at least one idiot who goes ''Ugh why's there GID on the pic'' or ''can you do an alt with just the girl?'', or even trying to shame artists who throw GID fans even the smallest of bones.

Considering M/M or M stuff in general is already in the vast minority it always struck me as really petty for people to be hostile towards it.

[Starcomet]

I certainly noticed it around the internet. Fans of Damsels in distress can just about anything they want. But fans of Guys in Distress must make due with what little they manage to get.

Yet despite this a lot of times there's a more high quality bondage pic with a male, or even a male or a female in it then there's at least one idiot who goes ''Ugh why's there GID on the pic'' or ''can you do an alt with just the girl?'', or even trying to shame artists who throw GID fans even the smallest of bones.

Considering M/M or M stuff in general is already in the vast minority it always struck me as really petty for people to be hostile towards it.

Indeed, and there are such knee jerk reactions at times.

[Jeff K]

Yeah, I generally don't care for M/M content, but people don't have to be a dick about it. I can relate as someone who isn't a gag snob, when people absolutely unload with rage at a story or image that doesn't have a gag in it.

Different people like different things. If you don't like it, move on.

[WillHBonney]

Like JeffK, M/M isn't my thing but I can't help but notice whenever I'm on BoundHub that almost every video with a male sub is downvoted into oblivion.
Makes me laugh at how offended these losers are that they can't just ignore it like a normal person and instead have to click, dislike the video and often leave a comment too. Weirdos.

[Xtc]

AS someone who writes almost exclusively m/m and M/M stuff with and without sexual elements, I would hope that anyone who notices "antis" of any sort on this site would report it to the mods for consideration.

[Starcomet]

Thank you all for your comments!

[captured_prize]

I'm a straight guy so obviously M/M bondage isn't going to appeal to me (the one expection being if one of them is crossdressing and it's non-sexual), but I also recognize that I'm not the intended audience. If something doesn't interest me, I just don't watch or look at it. Simple as that. No reason to make a big deal out of it.

[mention]WillHBonney[/mention] I've noticed this on BoundHub too and I agree it's pretty ridiculous. That's time they could be using to watch something they actually enjoy.

[Starcomet]

I'm a straight guy so obviously M/M bondage isn't going to appeal to me (the one expection being if one of them is crossdressing and it's non-sexual), but I also recognize that I'm not the intended audience. If something doesn't interest me, I just don't watch or look at it. Simple as that. No reason to make a big deal out of it.

@WillHBonney I've noticed this on BoundHub too and I agree it's pretty ridiculous. That's time they could be using to watch something they actually enjoy.

Exactly! I do enjoy some female bondage every now and then, but I do not go around denigrating videos or stories containing it. If it is something I do not like, I just keep scrolling till I find something I like.

[Xtc]

That isone of the reasons we insist on the gender-tagging of stories. Not only does the policy allow people to find stories they might like but also enables them to skip over ones that they might be less likely to enjoy.

[Starcomet]

That isone of the reasons we insist on the gender-tagging of stories. Not only does the policy allow people to find stories they might like but also enables them to skip over ones that they might be less likely to enjoy.

Which is helpful and other sites have followed suit.

[Terry]

I would like to see more non-consentual M/M fics here and less family orientated ones. Sad that there isn't that many what fit my kind of interests.

Especially the ones what involve certain kind of characters such as non-human character vs human character.

Speaking of which, I should start writing more such fanfics like I have done here but not recently.

I am also asexual so sexual stuff etc has no interest to me.

[Xtc]

Non consensual stories of any category can cause trouble if there is any hint of rape.
Pesonally, I avoid posting non-consensual tales concerning adults here even when here is no sexual content.

I think we should be aware that the word "Games" in the site header.

[Terry]

If you've seen my fics, you'd know I am against any kind of rape in fics and like I said, I don't like sexual fics.

Also I don't see the problem with fics with non-consentual tie ups. I've always written such fics for years.

[Jennyjay]

No interest in M/M but I won't stop those who do. I'm an M/F maybe F/F girl (woman) myself. I don't even go for F/M.

I can't say I've seen abuse to M/M though but perhaps I don't look for it.

[Starcomet]

I would like to see more non-consentual M/M fics here and less family orientated ones. Sad that there isn't that many what fit my kind of interests.

Especially the ones what involve certain kind of characters such as non-human character vs human character.

Speaking of which, I should start writing more such fanfics like I have done here but not recently.

I am also asexual so sexual stuff etc has no interest to me.

Yeah I would like more non-consentual content as well, but it makes many feel uncomfortable.

[andrewtied]

im an equal opportunist, i like being tied up by whoever, that being said i like any type of bondage im straight im not against M/M at all. i don't mind being tied up a woman, man or someone in between. there is alot of kink shaming and yes alot of great points have been made.

[Starcomet]

im an equal opportunist, i like being tied up by whoever, that being said i like any type of bondage im straight im not against M/M at all. i don't mind being tied up a woman, man or someone in between. there is alot of kink shaming and yes alot of great points have been made.

In online rp and video games, I do not mind a female bounding and gagging me and have had some fun sessions with females online. It is real life where I can only enjoy M/M hehe.

[Windrunner]

I'm .... genderfluid? maybe that's the right word, at least when it comes to bondage. I like tying people up. I love getting tied up. I think I have a mild preference towards bondage partners being male, but I think that's possibly because it seems to be easier to find male partners for whom bondage is the primary activity on the table.

I think for this same reason, I think that I tend to click slightly more often on stories where the characters are either same-sex or a group involving both, because again, actual sexual activity is generally not the main focus.

I usually only read the comments on a story if it's one that I enjoyed a lot and might comment on myself. Maybe it's our mods doing a good job, but I just haven't noticed comments which I'd call vitriol. There's lots of comments about "would love to see more use of (some type of gag, some form of bondage, more conflict, less conflict)" but that just seems to be people expressing various interests.

I'm a regular on some of the larger fetish/bdsm/kink sites, and all things considered, this one seems to be a real standout in that there's a healthy mix of m/m, f/f, m/f, f/m, and 'whole bunch of letters', and I see there's a healthy amount of discussion on almost all of those combos. Harder to find that much crossover other places.

Think of how many sites you know *never* to read the comments, lest you develop the impression that humanity is a failed experiment - any news site, community bulletin boards, video sharing sites, and of course that one site I have never and will never create a profile on, facebook. This is kinda a pretty inclusive community here, and I'm grateful for it.

[leconteur]

Some thoughts; social-cultural stigma against specifically m/m interactions is particularly strong, lots of insecure people, especially men who have to reify the lie they've been told that its all wrong and terrible. Especially those who have their whole life felt that it was in fact right, deep in their bones. The self-hating aspect is what drives some of the strongest reactions IMO.

There is also yes an internet policing bias against m/m material. Let's just say that anything even a little risque will be removed long before anything very graphic that is f/f or m/f. TBH if you want m/m material to last online you may need to modify it to be as vanilla as possible without losing the story. I am not comfortable with this self-censorship at all, just don't know what else can be done.

[Silkyscarves]

I like all bondage related stuff & styles whether males involved or females love reading all the stories aswell gets the imagination going lol

[tiedinbluetights]

Thanks [mention]Starcomet[/mention] for this insightful post; it has made me think and realize a few things about my formative years and my now (several decades later) mostly F/M focused "consumption".

I definitely have enjoyed M/M interactions non-sexually (as the /M) in my youth. While these days I'm into F/M exclusively as a happily married hubby to a Dom wife, it saddens me to realize that much of the M/M, M/F and F/M material of my formative years that helped form my F/M fantasies and turn them into reality, is, by several in today's world, viewed with vitriol for not wanting to be exposed to males in either top or bottom role. For me, in all my years on this Earth, my attention has always been preferentially drawn to the male-sub in bondage, even if there was a women as top or co-sub. The diminishing proportion of male-sub imagery saddens me.

I don't know what we can do to reverse this trend.

[Shotrow]

Sorry you guys go through that. There's no excuse for that kind of intolerance in spaces like this that are supposed to be welcoming to fantasies that others might view as distasteful.

Kinky spaces can be so complicated though. What one person likes can repulse another. We can't really help what makes us feel what. There isn't always a pattern or any rhyme or reason to it. I don't mind GID stuff with boys, but mature men are a turnoff to me. I've tried to read some M/M stories here just because the premise looked interesting, but there are some that place too much emphasis on the characters' masculine traits and I just can't enjoy those.

And of course, there are plenty of people who feel the same way about the stuff I like. So, as much as they're in the wrong for being assholes about it, I can understand the frustration that comes from unexpectedly coming across something that repulses you in a work from a creator that you usually like. There's no real solution except to be patient and kind with each other, and to try to be upfront about the content of our work. It's good that gender tagging is mandatory here.

[Terry]

Kidnap fics where the bad guys capture the good guy has always been of interest to me. This is what I mean by "non-consentual" if I didn't make that clear. And the kind of fics I would like to see more of here. I don't see what the issue is here. Nothing in those kind of stories what have to do with sex etc.

[Starcomet]

Kidnap fics where the bad guys capture the good guy has always been of interest to me. This is what I mean by "non-consentual" if I didn't make that clear. And the kind of fics I would like to see more of here. I don't see what the issue is here. Nothing in those kind of stories what have to do with sex etc.

I agree!